Since my last post on the Occult and Halloween I have had a lot of very supportive responses.
Our long time friends who live up North sent me this very interesting and eye opening interview.
Katie is a like minded servant of Christ who, along with a friend interviewed a woman named Sandi who had been a member of the occult for 29 years and came to know Jesus just 3 years ago (when the interview was done).
Her story of the reality that came from living in "The Brotherhood" is shocking at the least. Her perspective on Halloween & Harry Potter and the Christian Church are right on. Reading this article made me even more convinced of the convictions the Lord has placed on our hearts.
Thank you for sharing Ladies!
I hope and pray this reality rocks the Christian Church into repentance and starts to stand strong with the armor God gave it!
Here are a few highlights to tempt your pallet:
Sandi on her views of Christians celebrating Halloween:
Halloween is the occults second biggest "holiday"
Ruth: So when you see halloween stuff going on at church how do feel?
Sandi: Un uh - I think it’s terrible. I don’t think it should even be in the church. And I don’t think, satanists do not celebrate Christmas, which is a Christian holiday, so why in the world are Christians celebrating halloween? Then they decided to call it Harvest time, Harvest festival, or Harvest anything you can choose, but all you’re doing is saying we’re still celebrating halloween. We don’t want the kids to be left out. Well, I guess to shout - you should let the kids be left out. Because it’s evil; it’s just evil. Oh, isn’t that a cute little bunny suit - well yeah, but you’re still dressing up for halloween. There’s just nothing good about it, in my opinion. I hate seeing Christians celebrate it. My niece in Guam and their family, they’re muslim. They don’t celebrate halloween, and they don’t celebrate Christmas. So why is the Christian world finding that so hard to not have halloween in their churches. Even if they call it another kind of party. Oh, we don’t want the kids to be left out. Well, teach them why they need to be left out. My niece doesn’t go to town and by her kids candy just to help her kids celebrate halloween. You teach them young and they grow up and they don’t want to celebrate either. So it isn’t, I don’t think it should even be mentioned. I’m completely against it. And they go out and go trick-or-treating. Or they go, we’ll just take them to the mall, it’s safe there. You’re still acting out somebody else’s holiday. No, that’s not the right question to ask me, because I get on my soap box, because I don’t think it should even be an alternative, as they call it. It’s wrong.
Katie: Do you think Christians contribute to the work of the enemy when we celebrate?
Sandi: Well, of course! Then evil just sits back and says ha-ha! I got them half way there.
Katie: They don’t have to work as hard?
Sandi: No. Like some people who are just on the fence, it doesn’t matter one way or the other, he leaves them alone. They say we don’t have no trouble with satan, or lucifer, we don’t have no trouble with him. Well of course not, you’re not doing anything to get in trouble. It’s getting in trouble that means you’re doing something right, because you’re at least standing for your own principals. If you’re a Christian, stay there, don’t just go back and forth. And people don’t even realize they are, but they do, because they want to please - don’t want to make any waves. You better be making pretty big ones, on halloween - that’s a soar subject for me, I just can’t - I’m sorry, but I can’t see why a church would even consider it, even an alternative party. You want a part for your kids do it some other time, there’s lots of other days. Pull the kids together and just say lets get together this weekend. Like Friday night at the church Hall or whatever you call it, just for fun, just to be together. But not for an alternative for halloween. No. Shouldn’t even be there, but that’s my option.
To Read the Rest of the interview click here
Interview with Sandi. September 10, 2005
Background
Katie: How long where you involved in The Brotherhood (the occult)?
Sandi: 29 years.
Katie: How did you first get involved?
Sandi: I first got involved, my two friends and myself, we were in Seattle and our van broke down. We were hippies. Our van broke down so we couldn’t go to California. We all got colds because we were living in the van, and we’d hang out in the streets, and they said you need to get out of the weather. Come to our house. So ok - that’s cool. So off we went. I knew things were strange on the wall, but it was kinda the hippy age. It was like everyone kinda did their own thing. That must have been whatever they were in to - whatever it was. Not even realizing it was a spiritual thing, because I wasn’t raised in church either, I didn’t have any comparison. And so we got well, and wanted to go back to our van, but it was like - no just stay here, it’s good. So we just stayed on, and eventually just got to became part of the household. Then you got to go to the basement, and see what was going on. And that was like, whoa… from there on.
Katie: So there were quite a few people living in that house?
Sandi: About 22.
Ruth: What was going on in the basement?
Sandi: Well before you were accepted you couldn’t go to the basement. You could live there but you couldn’t go to parts of the house, and the basement was one of them. So, of course you wanted to get involved with everything. That place became home to me. Which was interesting, but it became home to me, and didn’t really want to leave. It was like I was totally accepted there. And that was more than I had before. So it was easy to stay.
Katie: And your two other friends stayed?
Sandi: They stayed too. So then there was a 5 year orientation. If you made the 5 years, then you’re well on your way.
Katie: Where they pretty clear with you, once you were living there, this is what we do, and we want you to be a part of it?
Sandi: That’s in the years when they were recruiting. Which they don’t do so much anymore.
Katie: Do they have enough volunteers now?
Sandi: Everything has been in place since about the 70s. Middle 70s. So they haven’t had to recruit. I mean - they’ve got local covens, where people at least you go home at night, but this was a live in, called The Brotherhood and they don’t recruit. Everything’s in place and has been.
Ruth: In place, meaning, they had for the goals they had set?
Sandi: Right, like they had police - people in the police department. They had people in the telephone department. in place. Attorneys, doctors - they had people in place in all these higher places in the government.
Katie: So they could get away with different things?
Sandi: So they could cover up for other things.
Katie: So would a lot of those people that were in the government and police - would they be living in that same house?
Sandi: Not necessarily but a lot of times, yes.
Ruth: So then having people in the police department. remember you were telling me about what would happen to the missing children?
Sandi: They wouldn’t be hunted for. They were used for sacrifices. Even though when they get caught doing something, they always say - we never sacrifice. But they do.
Ruth: What is the sacrifice stuff, not necessarily the details?
Sandi: Depending on the holiday - if it’s an infant; if it’s a boy or girl; if it’s an adult; boys between 10-15; or different sacrifice times is for a different category of persons.
Katie: How many a year on average?
Sandi: There’s several.
Katie: Consistent?
Sandi: Yeah, just like on the calendar.
Ruth: Would those kind of things go on in the basement then?
Sandi: Yes.
Katie: When someone was sacrificed, would the police in the cult help cover, because those people are gone?
Sandi: They’re gone, they don’t have a funeral, they’re just disposed of.
Katie: So as far as the government knows, they’re still living? Nothing is reported?
Sandi: They’re not reported missing so no one’s looking. Or if they’re looking they don’t know where to look. The child never comes home, or the adult off the street, nobody was missing him. But you could also sign up, for the appropriate age of sacrifice.
Ruth: Did you do that?
Sandi: Many times. I just didn’t get chosen. That was my biggest defeat, I think. I thought then, not now. I felt really rejected, because I wanted to give the ultimate.
Katie: Do you know why you weren’t chosen?
Sandi: No.
Katie: God’s hand, of course.
Katie: What was your main purpose or goals in The Brotherhood (the occult)?
Sandi: My goals were survival, loyalty, faithfulness, zeal. Oh, I wanted it all. Oh, I just dived into it. I had a purpose now and I wanted to go with it. I never thought about it being wrong. I just thought of it as being a religion. Another choice.
Katie: So did you view Christianity and some of the other religions as similar to what you were involved in?
Sandi: No, Christianity was a weak religion. For wimps and crybabies and crippled.
Katie: And then The Brotherhood was for the strong?
Sandi: Yes, for the strong, if you didn’t survive as a strong person there, you didn’t make it. My two friends didn’t make it.
Katie: So was that the 5 year initiation time where you have to prove yourself?
Sandi: Yes, the orientation, and they didn’t make it.
Ruth: Meaning?
Sandi: They died.
Ruth: In those 5 years?
Sandi: (nods yes) See, like when I started, they started out with 10 people and they counted us off, and I was nine. Nine means green, so my new name was Jade. So everyone gets a color and a name that goes with it. And when the 5 years was up there were only 3 left, and I was one of them.
Katie: And the rest were all killed or sacrificed?
Sandi: No, mostly just done away with. They weren’t even sacrifice quality because they had too many flaws.
Ruth: At the time, do you remember feeling sad that your friends died or were you just too loyal to the group?
Sandi: When he died - John died - it was like, it was nothing. But when Roberta died, it was like if I get out of here, I’m going to call the police. But then, by the time another year went by and my 5 years was up, then I never thought about it. And I was so loyal. That thought was gone.
Katie: What are some of the realities of life in The Brotherhood (the occult)? Or what was a typical day like for you?
Sandi: Well, you just get up and do your job. Everybody had a job besides living in the house, having a job to do.
Katie: Not a job for The Brotherhood, but a normal job you would go to?
Sandi: Well, most were fairly normal jobs, I was a psychic, so I don’t know if you consider that to be a normal job, but it was were I went every day. Read cards, the typical thing, so we brought money into the house. They kept 90%, and we got 10% for spending.
Katie: So where did that 90% go?
Sandi: We don’t ask, and don’t care. It just absorbs up in the house.
Katie: Would you all get together in the evenings?
Sandi: Yeah, just like a household would do.
Katie: So you wouldn’t have sacrifices or rituals every night?
Sandi: No, like once a month, twice a month maybe, depending on what the calendar said. Just like we just passed Sept 7, last Wednesday, and that’s like when they do the bride for satan for the year.
Katie: What is that all about?
Sandi: You become satan’s bride; it’s a pretty important place to be. Things like that, so there’s a lot of that kinda stuff through the year.
Ruth: Did you ever get chosen for that?
Sandi: Yes. I did.
Ruth: Is that kinda a one time thing or can you get chosen year after year?
Sandi: No, it’s once, and it’s forever.
Ruth: And what kind of thing do they do to celebrate that?
Sandi: It’s like a wedding, a ritual like that. You wear a wedding dress. But you’re always a bride once you’re chosen. There’s a big collection of brides. But it gives you a lot of privileges, like when you die and go to hell, you have your own room. And my prophecy was to sleep without dreams. That was the ultimate to me. I’d have my little room, and that was going to be what hell was gonna be for me, a privilege.
Katie: So it would be a benefit to not have dreams.
Sandi: Apparently, I never thought about it all these years, until I became a Christian. Nights were terrible. Nightmares, and horror things, to sleep without dreams would be such a gift. And I never thought about because it was so normal all the time. Awful sleeps. And so, didn’t anybody notice, I didn’t even notice myself - sleep without dreams? Like where am I living, that I’d be so awake a night with such horrible stuff. Never even crossed my mind. And even to become a Christian, I thought I still was going to hell. But they said why do you want to go to hell, I said so I could sleep without dreams. And I still wanted to go, but I didn’t know what it really was. But now I know! One time, someone came to my apartment, knocked on the door, said would you like to go to Heaven? I said hell no! Slammed the door. Pretty soon, knock, knock, knock, again, are you sure? I’m positive! I slammed the door. I mean - I was positive. Why would I want to go to Heaven for all those wimpy Christians. So even to become a Christian, I’m Christian now, almost 3 years. I can’t even believe how I thought. But then I see wimpy Christians and that still sticks in my mind. Crybabies. And I think, get a grip. If you got the strongest thing, if what is living in you is stronger than lucifer, then what’s your problem? It’s just took a long time to get it. And I still don’t get it but I’ve accepted it in the Christian world.
Ruth: Accepted what, the wimpiness?
Sandi: Yes, because if you have a cause in something you believe in, and you believe that God, Jesus, has more power than lucifer, then there’s no question, why would you still come moping and crying off to church so someone can give you a hug. Got your weekly hug - go home, wait for next week - get another one. No, no, no, no, no. That’s not right. I’m accepting it but I’ll never believe that if you can’t have a better life than where I’ve come from, then I’m in trouble. But I learning to be more patient, and why, I don’t know, but it’s the right thing to do. I think satan’s kingdom is ruled by fear, and power, and a different kind of zeal, you got a cause I don’t care if its 20 years ahead you still have the same zeal when it comes to 20 years ahead looking forward to things. But Christians can hardly make it from week to week, crying over something. Because, apparently, some people can not believe who Jesus really is. The power that comes. He went to the cross and died for you and me, and Ruth. That’s a lot of power. To give us - so we can life in a better place. Now I think of hell and I think - oh my gosh, how could I have ever believed that. But I didn’t have any other choices and I liked it. To sleep without dreams. Now, I can go to Heaven and we can sing all day if we want. You know Jesus loves us so much that He sings over us, it says that right in the Bible, says He sings over us. He loves us so much he cares to watch after us. But we are living in a world so full of sin, and we get sidetracked and our humanness gets sidetracked. But aside from that we should be stronger. I should be stronger. Some Christians I know should be stronger. Otherwise, your at the same place 20 years from now, and I don’t choose to be at the same place I was even 3 years ago.
Halloween
Katie: Was halloween a big celebration, is that one of the biggest?
Sandi: It’s not the biggest, it’s the second biggest. The biggest is in the spring for two weeks. October, is very big, but it’s second.
Katie: What’s the significance of the spring?
Sandi: It’s just a different celebration time, for a different reason.
Ruth: It’s at the same time Easter is, isn’t it?
Sandi: It’s parallel to Easter, but it’s on the same, the last week of April, first week of May, no matter when Easter comes, sometimes Easter is close to it, and sometimes not. It’s what you would call parallel to it though.
Ruth: So when you see halloween stuff going on at church how do feel?
Sandi: Un uh - I think it’s terrible. I don’t think it should even be in the church. And I don’t think, satanists do not celebrate Christmas, which is a Christian holiday, so why in the world are Christians celebrating halloween? Then they decided to call it Harvest time, Harvest festival, or Harvest anything you can choose, but all you’re doing is saying we’re still celebrating halloween. We don’t want the kids to be left out. Well, I guess to shout - you should let the kids be left out. Because it’s evil; it’s just evil. Oh, isn’t that a cute little bunny suit - well yeah, but you’re still dressing up for halloween. There’s just nothing good about it, in my opinion. I hate seeing Christians celebrate it. My niece in Guam and their family, they’re muslim. They don’t celebrate halloween, and they don’t celebrate Christmas. So why is the Christian world finding that so hard to not have halloween in their churches. Even if they call it another kind of party. Oh, we don’t want the kids to be left out. Well, teach them why they need to be left out. My niece doesn’t go to town and by her kids candy just to help her kids celebrate halloween. You teach them young and they grow up and they don’t want to celebrate either. So it isn’t, I don’t think it should even be mentioned. I’m completely against it. And they go out and go trick-or-treating. Or they go, we’ll just take them to the mall, it’s safe there. You’re still acting out somebody else’s holiday. No, that’s not the right question to ask me, because I get on my soap box, because I don’t think it should even be an alternative, as they call it. It’s wrong.
Katie: Do you think Christians contribute to the work of the enemy when we celebrate?
Sandi: Well, of course! Then evil just sits back and says ha-ha! I got them half way there.
Katie: They don’t have to work as hard?
Sandi: No. Like some people who are just on the fence, it doesn’t matter one way or the other, he leaves them alone. They say we don’t have no trouble with satan, or lucifer, we don’t have no trouble with him. Well of course not, you’re not doing anything to get in trouble. It’s getting in trouble that means you’re doing something right, because you’re at least standing for your own principals. If you’re a Christian, stay there, don’t just go back and forth. And people don’t even realize they are, but they do, because they want to please - don’t want to make any waves. You better be making pretty big ones, on halloween - that’s a soar subject for me, I just can’t - I’m sorry, but I can’t see why a church would even consider it, even an alternative party. You want a part for your kids do it some other time, there’s lots of other days. Pull the kids together and just say lets get together this weekend. Like Friday night at the church Hall or whatever you call it, just for fun, just to be together. But not for an alternative for halloween. No. Shouldn’t even be there, but that’s my option.
Coming to Jesus
Katie: How did you come to Jesus?
Sandi: I came to Jesus - I moved up here, because I retired from my job. I was in Arizona. I came up here and I was staying with my foster brother’s daughter, for four months until I could get in this apartment. And because she went to church, after a month I decided - it was like - I better go out of courtesy. Cause I was living with someone who went to church, right. So that’s how I started going, October three years ago. And then the pastor of the church and his wife they just talking to me, asking me where I came from decided to help me.
Ruth: Didn’t you have a vision?
Sandi: When I left The Brotherhood, I left on a whim. We were in a regular meeting on a Friday night, like every other Friday night, and a light came down through the ceiling and it just came across the room like a number two pencil line, small light. But we kept our room dark only with candle light, and here come this light streaming down through the ceiling, down, down, down, and went right into my being, and right at the same time something spoke to me and said you’re leaving. And I was so afraid of it - I was afraid other people would hear it you know, but I heard it, you’re leaving. And that was in January, and three months later I was gone. I had to make a plan for myself, how am I going to do this? But it was so compelling to leave, that I couldn’t get it out of my mind. Terribly compelling. And so I saved up some money those three months, and I got a thing in the mail, my niece was getting married, in Park City, Utah, I was in Seattle, and they lived in Arizona, but they chose to get married in Park City, Utah, and so I was invited to the wedding. So I went. And I kept on going and I went to Arizona.
Ruth: So you didn’t take anything from your house?
Sandi: Just enough, looked like a weekend. And off I went, knowing I wasn’t coming back. So I got to Arizona on a Tuesday and Wednesday morning I went and applied for a job I saw in the paper, got the job and went to work on Monday. And I was there all those years until I came up here.
Ruth: So it was 12 years or so?
Sandi: Yeah.
Ruth: And you kinda spent those years not in The Brotherhood, but in a sense in limbo, and trying to stay away from them and not get caught, right?
Sandi: Yeah, and having a lot of problems with that of course. And then I thought well where do I find this light, it was so compelling, and so supernatural. So I thought, because I didn’t know what to call it, I called it the People of the Light. Where are these People of the Light? I went to some churches when I was in Arizona; they asked me did I go to church. Yeah, I went - well what was the name of it; and I told them and right then, sorry!
One minister asked me to come late and leave early so I wouldn’t talk to nobody. Told me to talk to nobody because he didn’t want me to infect his crowd. But he didn’t feel he could kick me out. Others were blatant enough to say, I’m sorry but we can’t deal with you here. So I was still all this time I was looking for the People of the Light, but I was also working an awful lot, so it wasn’t like continual, like I had time for it all the time, but all through the time I was in Arizona, I got rejected basically. So I still expected it, but still wondered where it was. So then I was at this church, oh I don’t know, a few weeks and asked the pastor are you the people of the Light? And he said yes! And it’s like he didn’t even ask me what in the world are you talking about or anything. He just said yes. So I’ve kinda been there ever since.
Ruth: And it wasn’t too long after that, that you asked Jesus in your heart, right?
Sandi: It wasn’t long after that. I can’t remember now. It’s been a hard row to hoe, but it’s been worth it.
Katie: How has your life changed since you met Jesus?
Sandi: More peaceful, cleaned up, made a home, got friends, a value, well - it’s just a whole new lifestyle. It’s - I mean - look, I keep the lights on and the window open, and the curtains open, and it’s just whole different, everything about it. My life is different.
Harry Potter
Katie: What’s your opinion on Harry Potter?
Sandi: Oh, forget Harry Potter. My opinion is, they should have never wrote it. They should never have these movies, and satan’s just lov’in it. Anything from that part of the world. It’s been awful, because it really attacks kids - you know, young, young teens and pre-teens. It’s just awful! I just can’t image in happening but it sure did. I don’t think Christians should let their kids read it but. It’s too full of curses and séances, and things that are different than we should be doing and certainly shouldn’t be messing with.
Katie: Why do you think the books and movies are so popular?
Sandi: Cause it attracts kids - for one thing, it’s got kids in it their own age, so that it’s attractive to start out with. And then they are really introducing another spiritual life out there, that - sad to say, should never happen. But it did, and it went off like wildfire. And even in the church! No, no, no.
Ruth: Are they praying in The Brotherhood, that our thinking would be clouded?
Sandi: Oh yeah! They could get a whole generation that way without any effort.
Ruth: So if they can pray and see a book like this make kids think, oh - that’s ok, then they could just make it so the kids won’t see clearly the distinction between good and evil like in Malachi 3.
Sandi: Right, it’s just a story, but they don’t realize the spirit that gets into their little selves. And each book and each movie, has more intenseness to it, so it sneaks up on them, and they don’t even realize it. I heard one lady on TV say, Oh I’m glad my kids are reading these books, because I couldn’t get them to read anything. But they’re reading those books alone; I mean they’re 900 page books. They’re huge for kids, but boy - they’re soaking them up. And I thought, oh, it’s just Satan’s tricks. I don’t agree with it.
Ruth: And those curses they say in them are they for real?
Sandi: They’re for real; they all have some reality to them. And just enough so the kids go home and start doing it themselves and all you’re doing is inviting demon activity into your own life. And then when the kids get a few years older, the parents wonder, what happen to their kids. Without even realizing they bought them the book. Not even thinking. No, no this is for kids. My nephew, for instance he was 10 then, 5th grade when some of those books were coming out, and his mom wanted to buy him one. Oh, no mom, I don’t want no Harry Potter book. He just did that on his own. No, no, I don’t want no Harry Potter book. She bought it anyway; thinking he would read it any way. No, he wouldn’t have nothing to do with it. So she started reading it. And so he was all upset just to have that book in the house. So he comes home from school one day just all upset, because his teacher would read a chapter a day out of a book. Then the book ran out and so then got a new one to start it, and what was it - Harry Potter. In his classroom, he couldn’t get away from it. He was devastated, that boy. And nobody told him to not like that book, maybe the Holy Spirit spoke to him, because he lives in a muslim home. So his mom did finally get rid of the book. She said I can’t imagine it upset him so much, but if it does, she honored that much. She just thought she was doing him a favor - all the kids are readying Harry Potter. Because he was all in to pokemon too. And so she thought, this is great. But then the kid didn’t want it, bless his heart. Because they’re not being brought up Christian. They go to their friends’ house, that are Catholic, and their cross on the wall with a body on it, and he says, who’s that? And his mom says, that’s Jesus. Then they went in the bedroom to look at something, and look there’s another one, and he said mom, who’s that? She says, I told you that’s Jesus. No mom, he’s in the other room. He’s just trying to sort out. But he has a hunger, really for Christianity, but he just doesn’t know it yet. The Holy Spirit can speak to kids even when you can’t be there to talk to them, and that’s our job, I think. To help kids out - when prayer is helping them out. Your neighbors or whoever you know that’s influenced by that stuff, prayer will work. Cause it sure worked with my nephew.
Ruth: When we were in Japan as missionaries, you were in Japan too? But we were working on the opposite sides, huh?
Sandi: Yeah.
Katie: What were you doing there?
Sandi: Teaching people about demons, personalities of demons and what demons would be good for them. I think I had a bigger congregation.
Katie: So, pokemon was really big in Japan at that time too, right?
Sandi: Yeah, cause that’s where it started from. I know my my pastor and his wife said, you were in Japan too?
Ruth: We were talking that one time that while we were praying that kids would hate it, you were praying that it would…..
Sandi: ……take off like wildfire. So, when pokemon kinda wore down they put on a second pokemon - more characters, but that didn’t go over as well. It just kinda fizzled out, and pretty soon Harry Potter showed up. Oh, well, if they don’t want cartoony things maybe they want reality. So we got these cute little kids in there, and right their ages, and yep that sure took off. satan is subtle. I mean the church world all knows that, but he’s sneaking and subtle. And he never tires. He never gets tired of doing anything. We shouldn’t be surprised. If he can get your kids he’s got a whole generation.
Katie: Was the Harry Potter book anything you prayed for in The Brotherhood or would you strive for different thing like that?
Sandi: Different thing like that yes, but not knowing it was going to be Harry Potter. But it was sort of exciting when it did happen. It was like, whoa, this is perfect. And that kind of thing.
Katie: So right when Harry Potter came out, you said……..
Sandi: ……oh, this is an answer to prayer, just like Christians would say about things. Oh, this is great, and thank lucifer all over again. It’s just church turned around. Except the loyalty isn’t the same.
Ruth: Christians aren’t as loyal?
Sandi: Not the ones I’ve seen. I’m sure there are some - very loyal Christians, but I haven’t run across them in that respect. That’s pretty hard to say in case someone’s listening.
Katie: We kinda talked about this a little already, but the spell and curses in the books, are you familiar with them?
Sandi: Spells and curses in the book? No, I didn’t read the book. But, I just skimmed through it. But anytime you can put spells and curses on anyone it’s like to your benefit. It’s sort of like, the zeal, it’s like you’re doing what you’re suppose to do.
Katie: By putting spells and curses on people?
Sandi: Yes. Like, they had me - could you believe - work at the local hospital. I got hired to work in the nursery. When the babies are delivered I was the one who took them to the nursery, and cleaned them up. Oh, I was pleased. So I could curse these babies. Put hardships on them, you know curse them. Clean them all up give them back to their moms. It’s awful! I’ve had to repent a lot. But when it was your job and you were full of zeal - you just did it. I mean, it could have been the other way around if you were Christian, but blessings on the little babies instead of curses. Then the baby goes home he’s cranking and fussing and nobody knows how to handle them, they get tired of them, and shake them, slap them, baby gets worse - I mean it upset the whole household. And that was there purpose. But they never tire of curses. It’s like you go out at night, and you, take a map - like this was a map of Lynden, and you cut it into pieces and everybody would get a chunk, and that was your responsibility. You can go every night, to part of that - you know, and go down the allies and main streets and where ever and curse every single house. And you’d get up in the morning all grumping and ugly - go to work all nasty; it ruins your whole day, and you wonder what happen. So Christians should get up in the morning and say Lord, here I am help me if anything happened in the night take it away. Because it’s happening; believe me. It’s happening at your house and your house. When your turn comes and they come out every night. They might be in a different part of your street or a couple blocks over, but they’re out there. Faithful, that’s one of the things they love to do and are very faithful at. And they cover our nation that way. Absolutely.
Katie: Did you do some of that too?
Sandi: Oh, yeah, I loved doing it. It felt like you were doing something worth while.
Katie: So you would go out almost every night?
Sandi: Yeah, You were awake more in the night then you were in the day time. Go home and sleep a couple hours and go to your job. You come home from your job, sleep a couple hours and get up and go do the ritual stuff or whatever was going on. You know your whole world was turned different. All for the zeal for satanism. All the years I lived there - I never got tired of it. You just don’t. Somebody’s got you pumped up with zeal, you don’t tire. It’s just different.
Influence in our community – What can we do?
Katie: What are some other things or events in our culture today that the enemy is using?
Sandi: All our government have satanists in them. Even up here in the border, there’s some border patrol that belong to the group. They’re just everywhere. But you see that’s been established quite a while ago. Everybody’s in place. That’s the hard part.
Katie: So it’s mainly people that have been in there 20-30 years? Do they kinda train up other people to take their place?
Sandi: Yeah, eventually. You go up there and good old Joe say, hello how are you doing? And you’d never suspect him. But when you drive away you should say - tell the Lord to bless your car all over again. You just never know. There’s just ordinary people just like you and me. You never know what their doing.
Katie: So are their quite a bit in the police department?
Sandi: Yes, Attorneys, doctors, like I said before.
Katie: Interesting doctors, huh? They would perform surgery, but do they hope things don’t go well?
Sandi: Probably. Or decide this person isn’t worthwhile. Things like that. And then they have their own doctors, for when they have babies in the house or someone breaks their leg. Emergancies like that. They work out at a job, but they take care of their own. If a baby’s born there’s no birth certificate, if they’re sacrificial babies. Things like that. Nobody ever knows.
Katie: So if there is a pregnant woman in the group, would they know before hand that this was going to be a sacrificial baby or would they know if they want to keep the baby?
Sandi: If it’s a sacrificial baby - they know ahead of time.
Ruth: Because it was created for that purpose?
Sandi: Yeah. It was conceived for that reason.
Katie: What do you think is the biggest threat to The Brotherhood or the occult?
Sandi: The biggest threat? The only threat I can ever see being a threat is the Christian world or even just a group - just stand up and don’t take any more of their stuff. How do you do that? I don’t know. Not giving in to - how you feel like you think it’s your own thought, but it isn’t. Like when you’re cranking in the morning, and you think how come I’m so cranking this morning, I had a good sleep. And recognize where it could have come from. And start your day all over again. Say, Lord, help me today, I don’t feel right I think a curse came on me in the night. Otherwise it hangs on you all day, and you never accomplish much. Maybe with your job you did. But you’re just like dragging your feet all day, and the happiness is gone. You were robbed. If you could think of it as being robbed, then it may be more clear. Things like that. It’s the small subtle things that he gets the Christians with. If you can’t be productive then he’s happy.
Ruth: What can the church do?
Sandi: The church can recognize that, I guess. If the church could really recognized that and in their meetings talk about it a little more. And teach people how to or what to recognize, and what is just plain physical - you know, but recognize the spiritual things - what is spiritual attack. Because if you know when the Holy Spirit comes and speaks to you it’s very soft and gentle and you never forget it. You know - and nobody can talk you out of it. But when it comes to satanic attacks, you’re not sure what, you’re just like - oh, I just don’t feel right today, I’m kinda out of sync. Not realizing that a lot of that comes from satan.
Ruth: So you’re saying when there is that muddled feeling of not feeling right, that could be an indication of a spiritual attack?
Sandi: It could be very much so. Because of all that cursing in the night. Because even when we would get done at night when we gathered before we’d go to bed, we’d just put our maps together and do an over all thing, and just curse them in general. Because not all of them you could get to in one night. So you would just in general -just curse, curse, curse.
Ruth: So the cursing, you know how when we pray for people or bless them we lay our hands on them and pray for them. Is it just opposite of that?
Sandi: It’s exactly opposite. Except it’s for - well blessing you always think of something being happy or whatever, but cursing you automatically think it wrong and dark, and ones light.
Ruth: Did you use chants?
Sandi: A lot of times, and sometimes just verbal, just statements, like - just turned around from Christianity.
Katie: What kind of presence of The Brotherhood or occult is in Whatcom County?
Sandi: I’m not real familiar with it, but my friend is and she says it’s huge in Whatcom County. And in Skagit county and Whatcom County - it’s huge. She’s told me quite a few things over the passed few months. But I’m only going by what she knows.
Ruth: Is she a part of it?
Sandi: No, its Sue, She’s an expert here to help people out of the occult. So she knows and she says there’s a lot here.
Katie: Do you have a favorite passage of scripture?
Sandi: No, cause I don’t know that many, but the one I do know is John 3:16. “For God so loved the world”. And when I think of the world, I think of everyone who’s in it. Not, just good fine Christian people, but it indicates that He loves the world, everybody, every person. So that is comforting. Even in my state of horror, He loved me. He’s not holding any of if against me where I lived. And that was a real blessing, to know that God in Heaven could look past what I’ve done and where I’ve been, and I say I love you and I sing over you. Things like that. So He loved the world.
Katie: Did you have a concept of God when you were in The Brotherhood? Was God the enemy?
Sandi: God was the enemy.
Ruth: What about Jesus?
Sandi: The only thing I knew about Jesus was at our front door. And when you came in it, there was a big open space as big as this room, and there was a big circle painted on the floor. And they said that was Jesus’ blood, and to wipe your feet in the blood. It wasn’t blood, it was painted, but it signified that. And one time I said why? I didn’t understand why. And whoa - did I get in trouble. So I only asked once.
Katie: And they never told you why?
Sandi: Nope.
Ruth: Yeah, why Sandi, did you ever figure it out?
Sandi: Well, I know why now. It’s Jesus blood has a lot of power, and what they were doing is basically - it didn’t matter about wiping your feet on it - as you wanted to stomp out the power.
Ruth: Stomp out the power or steal the power?
Sandi: Stomp it out. Cause lucifer realizes, which I didn’t know then - the blood of Jesus Christ is stronger than anything he had, so they want to stomp it out, thinking they could do it. But I don’t think so now. But it seemed like the idea was right, to come up with that idea and thought it’d work. But as we know it doesn’t. But that’s how much they hate Jesus. Stomp out his power. And then when He died on the cross. We were taught He died on the cross - I mean He died. Everyone knows He died, but that He didn’t rise again. That He was dead. So that was a big surprise. Big surprise. So he does have more power than this world offers, He’s just kinder about it. He loves.
Katie: Where you kinda taught to hate?
Sandi: Oh yeah, I was a good hater.
Katie: But you loved your group?
Sandi: Oh, Loyal to the group.
Ruth: Loyal or did you love them?
Sandi: We didn’t use that word (love), just loyal to them, to the group as a whole. What our missions where and stuff. We didn’t care; we didn’t use the word love. I’ve heard it more up here the passed few years than I’ve heard it in my life.
Katie: Did you have any interaction with the Bible?
Sandi: If they got one they tore it up – see; we have more power. Tore it up and burned it. But I only saw that two or three times.
Ruth: Did they ever use parts of scripture and pray against it?
Sandi: No, I don’t remember it that way.
Ruth: You told me about waking up talking about lucifer, going to bed talking about lucifer.
Sandi: Yeah, we did, it’s such a devotion, it’s just your whole life. I was thinking when I became a Christian, I was gonna turn over and I was going to be the same way and all the people around me where gonna be the same way. Like that loyalty thing - where we couldn’t talk enough about God and Jesus and Heaven. This is all gonna change and it all turn around, and I was just gonna - boom, have that same loyalty, and that same – but, it’s not happened. I’m not sure about what happened, why it didn’t or was my expectation too much.
Ruth: Remember what you said, about coming back to church and people are still
Sandi: Whining - still wanting their same hug. That’s what I finally decided, that’s what it was all about. People have such lack in their own lives, that that two minute hug from people at church was all they needed. But instead of taking that same problem and stresses to God, they bring it back to church again to get that little hug. But they really needed to get a hug from Jesus. It would be more lasting, and more life giving. Sure people can hug us and it feels good, or has a reason, but it’s not the same as getting a hug from the Holy Spirit - then you know you’ve been hugged. It’s different, just different. Actually, I’m so disappointed because I’ve gotten really slack on my own self, I feel like I’m falling into the same behavior because that’s the behavior that’s expected. And I’m not happy about it at all.
Ruth: Yeah, there’s a difference about when you first came into Church.
Sandi: Oh, yeah, I wouldn’t miss a meeting, and now I think of reasons not to go. I wouldn’t miss nothing for nothing. I wanted to be right there in the front row. I wanted to absorb it all.
Ruth: And you’d get so frustrated when people were looking at their watches waiting for church to get over.
Sandi: I did, it was way different, now I’ve kinda slid into the same, because that’s expected. These Christians say that new Christians should all be put away for 6 months, then they end up acting like everybody else. And I’m really disappointed in myself. So I’ve kinda fallen into the same thing - my attitude anyway. I don’t care about the hugs. I wish it didn’t happen. And the Bible - you should see my bible, it’s so marked up I can’t get enough of that Bible. And I hope that never changes. Then I’m it trouble if that changes. So why do you want to go or why would a person want to go when it’s - or there’s nothing there. I say that to the wrong people I could be in trouble but that’s the way I feel about it. But just so I don’t get tired of the Bible.
A optomistic believer!
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